Thursday, March 24, 2011
Sebastian and Charles
By the end of the reading you had to do for this week (Book I, Chapter 6), the heady, idyllic life in Oxford and the summer in Brideshead had completely changed. What is the principle cause of the change in the relationship between Charles and Sebastian? Sebastian's drinking is obvious, but look at the cause of that.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
18 comments:
Charles and Sebastian’s relationship changed because they were no longer the same people. Charles is a little more focused and Sebastian has so many issues with his family and within himself that he is a mess. Sebastian felt like Charles was not taking his side anymore so that drew a wedge between them. He really considered Charles as “one of them” now since he has become so “chummy” with “mummy” and the rest of the family. Charles no longer represents an unbiased friend who he looks forward to being with.
There relationship has changed because Charles has been let into the Marchmains family, which is what Sebastian didn't want. Lady Marchmain wants Charles on her side to help her keep control of Sebastian. So Sebastian starts drinking because everyone is trying to take over his life. Because of this Charles takes a step back from their friendship and relationship and he becomes the parent picking up after Charles. The person Charles needs.
Sebastian's childlike behavior seems to hold him back in his life, which is what turns him to alcoholism in the first place. He is unable to make good decisions, as was seen when he drove drunk in London, which is something that could be seen from a high schooler. Charles on the other hand seems already grown up. The questioning of why he would like Sebastian remains a mystery, but I personally feel that it is because Charles likes to be with people with "depth." In other words, Sebastian is a very interesting person he just can't figure out. This becomes the major change with Brideshead and Oxford, because the longer Charles knows Sebastian, the more knowledge he gains about him, and the more miserable his reality becomes at the mansion. Therefore, Charles alternate place of pleasure can only be at Oxford, since his father creates an unfriendly atmosphere at home.
Comment to Jeremy...
I agree with what you said about Charles being interested in Sebastian because of the depth, but I happen to think it is the depth that he "thinks" he sees in him. Sebastian is just an upidy, high class, spoiled person who Charles initially liked being around. The more he was around him, the more he got to know the real Sebastian, and he sees that Sebastian is just a "shell of a man"
DeMetra,
I see what you mean about the two men changing because they really have. Their second year Charles and Sebastian do separate more and Charles becomes more school oriented and a bit of a loner, whereas Sebastian also becomes more of a loner but less involved in school and a more heavy drinker. What's interesting I think is they still come back to each other. So, it's like the two of them try to be without each other but then they come back to being friends. When they start their friendship back up they do have some problems but they are still their for each other and still rely on each other.
Charles and Sebastian’s relationship changed because Charles became more mature, as Sebastian became more childish. Charles had developed into a more studious and goal-oriented individual, while Sebastian continued to drink his life away. Their relationship started off very warm and care-free, but as the years preceded Sebastian started to become more dependent on alcoholism to numb his religion and ultimately his manipulative mother. Eventually, he started to isolate himself away from his entire family and Charles. Sebastian strongly felt that he had no control over his life, so he turned to alcohol for the solution for every problem he had to face. His alcoholism quickly pushed all of his love ones out of his life and ultimately changed his relationship with Charles.
To Maegan
Yes, I agree that Sebastian felt that everyone was trying to control his life. Because of that reason, he turned more and more towards alcohol and extreme spending of money. Also, Charles being an agnostic and always criticizing Catholicism greatly affected their relationship as well. Furthermore, his overbearing Catholic mother placed high expectations on all of her children, which Sebastian was very afraid that he would let down. At the end, he became very frustrated with how Catholicism and his mother always trying to control every aspect of his life.
The relationship between Charles and Sebastian starts off very well. Later as time goes on their relationship starts to change. Sebstian starts having more problems with his family and with himself. Charles is becoming more focused in life. Sebastian starts to drink more because he feels pressured and also becasue people are trying to take control of him and tell him what to do.
Because of the family's Catholic traditions Sebastian starts to have problems, he feels that he has high expectations because of his mother. The friendship between Charles and Sebastian is better at the beginning of the novel, than Charles concerns more about his life, and Sebastian starts to drink a lot and starts being not himself.
Charles and Sebastian’s relationship began deteriorating as the novel progressed. When they first started off in Oxford, it was a time for them to be carefree, to not really settle down for anything, and to just have fun like any other person who is just starting off new. After a semester or two went by, things are going to change and we see that in Charles’ character as he matures while Sebastian is still tied down to his childlike attitude. Of course they’re relationship is going to fall apart because they’re two different people now. I have to agree with Tien, one of the principle causes of their broken relationship is that fact that they’re paths have branched from each other.
First off, into their second term into Oxford, they had set aside most of their old friends, causing them to step back and be able to reflect on their lives. Charles is having problems with his father, Sebastian hates his family which I'm suspecting is his inner struggle of living within a society and a family where it is not okay to be exactly what Sebastian is. Which is a homosexual, Charles and Sebastian are pretty much in love and they both seem to feel that they only have each other. Although with the progressive drinking of Sebastian they become less close but Sebastian still feels Charles is his only friend and they are still close.
Charles and Sebastian were not very different. They were living their lives as if they were just kids. They had no real worries and just lived as two best friends would in a college life at that time (maybe they might have been too close a normal college life). But as life goes on for them, Charles seems to grow up. Sebastian never really does. His immaturity causes Carles to side more with Sebastian's family. He becomes closer to his mother and it anger Sebastian.
They weren't meant to stay friends in the first place. Men like Charles have to explore freedom after not having any. Sebastian just so happen to be the guy that helped Charles find his freedom. At the beginning of the book Charles did seem to question a lot of things and hold back from expressing his true thoughts. Charles had to get his childhood and childish ways out of his system. Once Charles was accepted as part of the family Charles' old ways and true ways came out. Charles is very responsible and mature and that will not change because of a childish man, Sebastian. Sebastian leading to alcohol could have been seen as coming because of how much they drank before. He warned us that he loses everything to his family. He tried keeping Charles to himself but that did not happen. You could say Sebastian losing Charles was losing everything.
Comment to Dakota:
I agree with you Dakota that Sebastian really never really grew up. The boys had everything growing up in a way they were spoiled and never really learned to work for what they want. Like most college students Charles and Sebastian had an idea as to what they wanted to do but change their minds, and decide to go to Paris and discover who they really are.
To Demetra,
Yes Demetra, I strongly agree with your statement. The novel states of when Sebastian feels like betrayed or something because of the fact that Charles is so close to "mummy" and other family members. He does indeed see this as him taking "their side". Sebastian does tend to start having tons of issues going on within himself and the involvement of his family.
-Lis
Response to DeMetra
I agree are no longer the same people. It does seem like as the book progresses Charles seems to grow and mature. But Sebastian has the same outlook, same attitude, and same lifestyle as he did in college. Progression is what he lacks. I think that is something that also bothers Sebastian about Charles. Sure he is upset about the growing relationship Charles has with his mother, but Sebastian sees Charles straying away from him. He sees Charles as a more of grown up and Sebastian isn't one. He still hangs on to his childhood.
Comment to Dakota:
I agree with you, Sebastian never really grew up. Their relationship at the beginning of the novel was better, they both went to college. After sometime Charles matures and moves on with his life. On the other hand Sebastian seeks help in alcohol and eventually becomes dependent on it. Although Sebastian runs away to isolate himself, Charles still managed to look for him, and that's why i think Charles is a good friend to Sebastian.
Comment to Dakota:
I think maybe that the teddy bear might be more for feeling connected to someone, as opposed to not growing up. If he's hiding the way he feels, and he's unable to tell even his own mother how he feels. Then he needs something, and he might place that on his teddy bear.
Post a Comment